Mexican Apeman translation discussion

Questions, remarks, etc. on the VSB project.
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Re: translation

Post by olzen » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:38 am

Meh, I'm throwing in the towel, since I'm not gonna be using the translations anyway. Just don't scare any translators away :P
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Re: translation

Post by Noctambulo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:49 am

mjomble wrote:His voice would still be Spanish, even in the translation. And Roger's voice would be English.
The voices would match the characters' nationalities, we'd only translate the "subtitles" to different languages.

Original version: voices, nationalities and text all match each other for every character.
Translated versions: (for at least every character other than the Mex Guard) the voices would match the nationalities and the text wouldn't match either the voice or nationality.

To keep things consistent, I'd treat Mex Guard the same as every other character by having the voice match the nationality and the text not match either.
Errr... There are no "American" or "British" characters in the game, but "Xenonian". The "Universal Translator Thingie" is the one responsible for the lines in the player's language ;)
mjomble wrote:The guard isn't actually Mexican either, he's Tacobelian.
We just have an implied mapping:
Xenonian <-> English
Tacobelian <-> Mexican
Technically, a "Tacobelian" can be either a Mexican or a Texan, but in VSB, is a Mexican.

And the implied mapping is this:

Xenonian <-> Player's language.
Tacobelian <-> Mexican; Spanish speaking character

Why I'm telling you all this? Because a native Spanish speaker might seem odd that a Mexican character is not speaking in Spanish ;)

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Re: translation

Post by mjomble » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:07 am

Noctambulo wrote:Errr... There are no "American" or "British" characters in the game, but "Xenonian". The "Universal Translator Thingie" is the one responsible for the lines in the player's language ;)

/--/

Xenonian <-> Player's language.
Ahh, now I see what you mean :D

However, I think the original series left this up to debate and didn't fully confirm nor deny either of our theories.

There was a universal translator in SQ2, but it was a separate inventory item that Roger needed to use in order to understand the Pinkunz, rather than something like HHGttG's BabelFish which pretty much everyone used all the time.

VSB, however, confirms my version when the other guard mentions that the Tacobelian one "doesn't even speak Intergalactic English" (this may have something to do with the fact that I wrote that line :P).

If there is something in the original series that clearly contradicts this, then I screwed up :P

But until I find such evidence, I'm assuming that the "Xenonians speak English" theory is correct, at least in the reality that VSB takes place in.

As for the guard, we do call him "the Mexican apeman" for convenience when we discuss him, but that's not really correct in terms of the game. In-game, he's always referred to as the Tacobelian guard and never as a Mexican. The intention is that the Tacobelian quadrant is the SQ universe's equivalent of Mexico, but the ape is not actually from the country Mexico on the planet Earth.

We even call him Mexican in the voice scripts and that's a mistake I should go and fix now :P

So while "do Xenonians speak English?" is up for debate in terms of the original series and even The Two Guys may not have a clear decision about this, I can confirm any facts about Tacobelians in the VSB reality as I was the one who originally came up with the idea. At least I think I did. It's tricky to remember who came up with what at this point :P But I'm 95% sure that one was mine.
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Re: translation

Post by pcj » Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:15 am

The translator is left on Roger's table in SQ6 so I don't think it's necessary to translate Xenonian into English.

Though, we could have an "authorized" original Xenonian translation too...

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Re: translation

Post by Noctambulo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:31 pm

mjomble wrote:I think the original series left this up to debate and didn't fully confirm nor deny either of our theories.
Well, I have a theory of my own: The writers of the original SQ series speak English, and their work is for English speaking people, so, they write all the story in English, they sell it in English, and ir order to do so, they just make the characters to talk in English, even when the story is literally out of this world. The same happens with Star Wars, as we hear them talking in English, in a galaxy far, far away...from the US... So, story short: Money talks in the language of the costumer. How it sounds? :D

If they Two Guys from Andromeda were instead from, say, Mexico, we would be talking about the English version of the story, but still, we would keep saying that our hero es Xenonian, even if the original character speaks Spanish.
mjomble wrote:There was a universal translator in SQ2, but it was a separate inventory item that Roger needed to use in order to understand the Pinkunz, rather than something like HHGttG's BabelFish which pretty much everyone used all the time.
Errr... In fact when I was talking about an "Universal Translator Thingie", it was kinda metaphore of the translation to the language of the viewer. There are a LOT of books and movies where the characters speak in diferent languages, but we read/hear the dialogues in our language in order to understand it, but that doesn't mean they actually speak in our language. i.e: Does anyone believe that the warriors of "300" were Americans, or that the Spartans AND Persians spoke English?

It's just more comfortable to assume that we can understand the lines withour further questioning (or using captions...or a dictionary). And in a fictional universe, it's even easier to do such assumption.

Said all that, the point is: The guard with a mustache (wherever he is from) does not speak the same language as the rest of the characters, so, to make him speak in Spanish in the Spanish version is like "stealing" a little from the overall story, as the pun is "lost in traslation" (literally).And that's very easy to "fix", IMO.

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Re: translation

Post by mjomble » Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:46 pm

Noctambulo wrote:Said all that, the point is: The guard with a mustache (wherever he is from) does not speak the same language as the rest of the characters, so, to make him speak in Spanish in the Spanish version is like "stealing" a little from the overall story, as the pun is "lost in traslation" (literally).And that's very easy to "fix", IMO.
By "speak", do you mean the voice acting or the text on the screen?

If you're thinking of the text - I agree completely :) That's why I keep saying that in the translated versions, his text would be in "not Spanish". And in every version of the game, his language would be different from the other characters.

If you're thinking of voice acting, I doubt we'll change any of that in the translated versions. Roger's voice will remain English even though his text will be translated. And the Tacobelian guard's voice will remain Spanish, but his text will always be something different from Spanish.
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Re: translation

Post by Noctambulo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:00 pm

mjomble wrote:By "speak", do you mean the voice acting or the text on the screen?

If you're thinking of the text - I agree completely :) That's why I keep saying that in the translated versions, his text would be in "not Spanish". And in every version of the game, his language would be different from the other characters.
Text. I'm not assuming a Spanish talkie version, yet. Are you making such version? (I would like that :D )
mjomble wrote:If you're thinking of voice acting, I doubt we'll change any of that in the translated versions. Roger's voice will remain English even though his text will be translated. And the Tacobelian guard's voice will remain Spanish, but his text will always be something different from Spanish.
In the Spanish text/ English talkie version, you can simply put olzen voice acting with something in Danish, and it's all set. Just the Spanish-German or Spanish-Danish speakers would notice the difference ;)

By the way (I HAVE to ask) Why are you so reluctant to make a simple change, like writing "Bismarkian" ("Bismarckiano") instead of "Tacobelian" (or "Tacobeliano", "Taquero" or "Tacobeño") in the Spanish version?. I'm really curious.

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Re: translation

Post by mjomble » Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:56 pm

Noctambulo wrote:By the way (I HAVE to ask) Why are you so reluctant to make a simple change, like writing "Bismarkian" ("Bismarckiano") instead of "Tacobelian" (or "Tacobeliano", "Taquero" or "Tacobe?o") in the Spanish version?. I'm really curious.
I'm guessing the issue you have is that the word "Tacobelian" has a strong connection with Mexico or Texas and it would be too weird to have a Tacobelian character whose text is shown in, say, German. So the solution is to rewrite him as a more German character.

If that's the case, how about an analogy - a character named Roger Wilco whose text is shown in Russian (for the Russian translation of VSB). The name Roger has a strong connection with English and it would be weird to have his text shown in Russian. The solution is to rewrite him as a more Russian character, Rodzerovsky Vilkovich. ....or is it? :P

I'd say we should treat all characters the same.
If Roger keeps his nationality, so does the guard.
If Roger's name doesn't match the language of his speech text, neither should the guard's.
If Roger's voice matches his nationality, so should the guard's.

And this still ensures that in each version of the game, the guard's language will be different from every other character, so the joke about him being a foreigner will work.
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Re: translation

Post by Noctambulo » Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:40 pm

mjomble wrote:I'm guessing the issue you have is that the word "Tacobelian" has a strong connection with Mexico or Texas and it would be too weird to have a Tacobelian character whose text is shown in, say, German. So the solution is to rewrite him as a more German character.
In fact, you are who gave such strong connection: Taco Bell is a well know chain of tex-mex food, the mustache, the Spanish text and at last, but not least, you even called him the "Mexican apeman" (ok, ok, from Mexico, somewhere-in-outerspace, not Mexico, Earth).

The issue is that this character is NOT speaking the same language than all the others (English), but if you translate to Spanish the lines of all the other characters, then such character will be speaking the SAME language... So, the solution is to rewrite his lines in a language that is not Spanish (in order to keep the joke), and make him come from a place that speaks a different language than anybody else. There is not a storyline to be changed: Just a stereotyped nationality.
mjomble wrote:If that's the case, how about an analogy - a character named Roger Wilco whose text is shown in Russian (for the Russian translation of VSB). The name Roger has a strong connection with English and it would be weird to have his text shown in Russian. The solution is to rewrite him as a more Russian character, Rodzerovsky Vilkovich. ....or is it? :P
That's not the case: Roger Wilco is the hero, not a casual character, and if you change his homeworld from Xenon to, say, YUPI98, Sexyplanet69, Gurttrejhiob or Leyngdsianaplaf, it doesn't really matter, does it? But a Mexican talking in German or Danish, well, it's another thing (here and in outerspace too).
mjomble wrote:I'd say we should treat all characters the same.
Are you implying that you are going to give ALL the character the same number of lines than Roger? :roll:
mjomble wrote:If Roger keeps his nationality, so does the guard.
Roger is the SQ hero. The guard is just a minor character of this chapter, and his nationality IS the pun.
mjomble wrote:If Roger's name doesn't match the language of his speech text, neither should the guard's.
By the way, what's the name of the guard? (I only know that it's NOT López)
mjomble wrote:If Roger's voice matches his nationality, so should the guard's.
Maybe you should keep in mind that Roger is from Xenon, not the US (as he speaks "American") ;)
mjomble wrote:And this still ensures that in each version of the game, the guard's language will be different from every other character, so the joke about him being a foreigner will work.
If the guard speaks Spanish in all the non-Spanish versions, the joke will work. No changes needed there, but you can do it, for amusing purposes :D .

But, well, I give up ](*,) ... I tried to explain and sustain to you that a clearly Mexican character not speaking Spanish doesn't make sense at all for the Spanish speaking audicence, as the pun is lost in traslation, but as I already said, it's your prerrogative, not mine.

Moving on :wink:

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Re: translation

Post by mjomble » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:10 pm

Noctambulo wrote:The issue is that this character is NOT speaking the same language than all the others (English), but if you translate to Spanish the lines of all the other characters, then such character will be speaking the SAME language... So, the solution is to rewrite his lines in a language that is not Spanish (in order to keep the joke)
As I keep saying, this is the part we agree on! :D

In the Spanish version of the game, I want to use a language that is NOT Spanish for displaying the text of the guard with the moustache.
This character's lines should always be in a different language than the lines of all the other characters.

This is exactly what you want as well. We are agreeing on this specific question.
Please stop saying that the problem is that I want the opposite of that :P

Can you point out a single thing I have written in this thread that makes it seem like I want the lines of the guard with the moustache to appear in Spanish in the Spanish version of the game?
(Let's say starting from page 2 of the thread. At the very beginning of the thread I did throw different ideas around, including distorted Spanish. But I've always wanted him to sound different from all the other characters).

I have more comments on the rest, but I'll hold them until we get at least this item sorted out :P
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Re: translation

Post by pcj » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:20 pm

I kinda think we should have the Spanish guard's lines...not in Spanish. What do you think guys?

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Re: translation

Post by mjomble » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:29 pm

I think the entire game should be in Swedish. In all the translated versions as well.
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Re: translation

Post by Datadog » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:45 pm

I think this particular segment thread should be split off from the rest of the "Translation" thread.

Also, I think we should just swap English for Spanish. That way, we can all vouch for its accuracy, and it'll make a good easter egg for anyone who wants to download the Spanish version and see what the ape is really saying. We can just change his restaurant planet to something English in the vein of McDonald's, Denny's, Applebee's, or Chuck 'E Cheese's (I'm not sure what popular English restaurants adorn Britain.) (Also, I didn't realize how many American restaurants end in " 's " until now.)
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