6 Aug 2005 - #sq - Vohaul disk inconsistency

Released information from various stages of VSB's development.
Post Reply
User avatar
mjomble
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 4:44 am
Location: Estonia

6 Aug 2005 - #sq - Vohaul disk inconsistency

Post by mjomble » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:23 pm

[21:55:40] <Jibbles> I just played SQ4 again, and I noticed something.
[21:55:44] <Justas> Ooh
[21:56:38] <Jibbles> The Roger Jr. Disc is write protected, so either it has a backup of Rojer Jr on it or its blanks. You are not able to download Vohaul to the disc. I hope VSB has considered that.
[21:57:13] <Justas> Hmm, I think that's been discussed before...
[21:57:24] <Justas> Though I'm not entirely sure what eventually came out of it :P
[21:58:44] <Jibbles> LOL well as long as its been considered... wouldn't want VSB rejected by the continuity comittee ;)
[21:58:46] <Justas> And I don't remember the order of events at the end of SQ4 very well. And I haven't checked because that was written in way before I joined the project, so I always just sort of took it for granted.... so you may be right :P
[21:59:04] <Justas> Although I do hope you're not ;)
[21:59:13] <Jibbles> You upload Vohaul to the super computer from the brain
[21:59:20] <Jibbles> You upload the Roger Jr from the disc
[21:59:27] <Jibbles> You download Roger Jr into the brain
[21:59:34] <Jibbles> Vohaul stays in the super computer
[21:59:50] <Jibbles> If you try to write Vohaul to disc, it says "Error: Disc Write Protected"
[22:00:29] <Justas> Hmm. Yeah, heard this before.... though I wasn't in the VSB team the last time I heard it so I didn't pay much attention :P
[22:00:42] <Jibbles> lol
[22:00:57] <Jibbles> Oh well, you'll just have to scrap the whole thing and start again ;)
[22:01:37] <Justas> Been there, done that ;)
[22:01:41] <Jibbles> lol
[22:05:11] <Justas> Just a matter of reconfiguring the intro, probably ;)
[22:05:29] <Justas> Fortunately, we haven't got much of that done, mainly been focusing on playable areas for now
[22:05:40] <Jibbles> Yeah probably. They can still retrieve it from the Super Computer.
[22:06:01] <Justas> Not after it was formatted, though ;)
[22:06:10] <Justas> But I've got some alternate ideas already
[22:06:11] <Jibbles> The brain was formatted, not the computer
[22:06:28] <Jibbles> And thinking about it, that must have been halted somehow...
[22:06:34] <Jibbles> Actually...
[22:06:43] <Jibbles> Thats an inconsistency in SQ4
[22:06:43] <Justas> Hmm, I just realised... I'm not even sure what is this 'brain' you speak of :P
[22:06:50] <Jibbles> Roger Jrs brain.
[22:06:56] <Justas> Ah
[22:07:07] <Justas> But the format sequence was still on the computer, no?
[22:07:25] <Jibbles> Not sure... let me run that section again and let the formatting complete itself.
[22:08:01] <Jibbles> Ah, your right.
[22:08:05] <Justas> From what I vaguely remember, the death message was something like "You just weren't there to see it", which didn't make much sense
[22:08:06] <Jibbles> From SQ4 Deaths
[22:08:06] <Jibbles> Return to the laser tunnel and leave after setting the format sequence.
[22:08:06] <Jibbles> As you leave the laser tunnel, you hear a voice announce that the formatting program is beginning, erasing all data in the Super Computer and dashing all hopes of regaining your son!
[22:08:20] <Justas> And it was probably just a plot device to force the player to do the end scene
[22:08:39] <Jibbles> et the formatting sequence finish before rescuing Roger Jr.
[22:08:39] <Jibbles> Computer message: **WARNING** T minus 250 - Safety margin: CRITICAL
[22:08:39] <Jibbles> The formatting sequence times out, the computer brain does its thing, and you suddenly realize you've lost the game because you weren't there to see it.
[22:08:44] <Justas> Ah, yeah, Roger Jr. was still on the computer
[22:08:51] <Jibbles> Yeah.
[22:09:06] <Jibbles> I'm not sure why you weren't there to see it though...
[22:09:16] <Justas> Crappy writing ;)
[22:09:22] <Jibbles> Unless if vohaul gets a new body, he goes back and kills you as a baby?
[22:09:59] <Justas> Maybe they mean that when Roger Jr. died, it created a paradox as Roger would have died earlier or somesuch
[22:10:45] <Justas> Although as the death would've taken place after Roger Jr. saved him, that wouldn't make much sense :P
[22:10:55] <Justas> Gyoooaaarrrr!
[22:11:01] * Justas bands head against wall
[22:11:04] <Jibbles> Maybe the Roger Jr that came back to get Roger was from AFTER SQ12, and he did it because he knew that it was his dad that had to save him?
[22:11:15] <Justas> Hmm
[22:11:32] <Justas> Possible.
[22:11:51] <Justas> I'll just feed this discussion to the VSB forum and have pcj figure out a solution with his 190-200 IQ ;)
[22:12:44] <Jibbles> No, Roger Jr that was captured was the same one as came back to get Roger. Says so in the cut-scene before the GG
[22:13:37] <Jibbles> I think I'll put the SQ4 inconsistency in the JT for discussion
[22:13:47] <Justas> Heh

---------------------

Summary:
  • We may have a severe continuity problem.
  • Or we may also not have that problem, if this has been somehow solved before or Jib and I were just overlooking something.
  • If it still is a problem, we should probably find a way around it ;)
As for those alternate ideas I mentioned, the apes might not get the disk from the Super Computer after all and just be carrying out an order Vohaul had left for them before his death or something. Hence eliminating the time travel bit and the reusing of Xenon at the beginning... which I don't think would be all that terrible, actually, as we don't have a whole lot of that done yet... ;)
"Man, we're gonna get so much pie when all these droids start coming back."

User avatar
olzen
Co-Lead; Producer, Composer, Director, Writer
Co-Lead; Producer, Composer, Director, Writer
Posts: 2137
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:07 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Post by olzen » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:29 pm

I think I once talked this over with Troels back when it was still a very hot discussion topic at the SSC, and he assured me that this wasn't a problem and that Vohaul was on the disk. Either way, the disk that the apeman finds in the beginning has "Vohaul back-up" scribbled onto it, so if what Jibbles says is true, we might as well just stuff in that somebody was smart enough to take a back-up. Or that Never traveled back through time to do the same if we wan't to create some real headaches!
WARNING: Will often post redundant anecdotes about the history of the "Vohaul Strikes Back"-project.

User avatar
mjomble
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 4:44 am
Location: Estonia

Post by mjomble » Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Hmm... although in that case, it'd be somewhat odd that the backup disk would be lying at the same place where Roger threw the other write-protected disk ;)

*entering stomp-on-everything-established-before-I-joined-the-team mode*

The whole extra time travel in the beginning was a bit odd anyway and if we change it into a backup disk, the whole thing gets somewhat redundant. And we've only got three screenshots of that area so far, two of which are SQ4 paintovers.....

Just a thought. If y'all think we should keep the SQ12 bit, I'll shut up. ;)
"Man, we're gonna get so much pie when all these droids start coming back."

User avatar
pcj
Site Admin, Webmaster, Programmer
Site Admin, Webmaster, Programmer
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 9:19 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by pcj » Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:25 pm

You guys forgot about the LSL disk? It had pervaded the SQ12 Xenon, obviously all disks on Xenon are covered with it, as any good worm travels. So the apes, while thinking they find the right disk, actually found another disk with the LSL virus still on it. :P

User avatar
mjomble
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 4:44 am
Location: Estonia

Post by mjomble » Fri Aug 12, 2005 5:39 am

Been meaning to reply to this... and now I have the post material from #vsb in a convenient copy-n-paste format ;)

Here's some thoughts to reply to pcj's post:
[14:22:05] <@Justas> The original idea was that the apes would go there in the immediate aftermath where everything is still in confusion
[14:22:51] <@Justas> But I think the apes shouldn't have time travel technology at all. Otherwise they could've just gone to the time where the Super Computer was still fully functional and made a whole bunch of Vohaul backups to bring back :P
[14:23:09] <@Justas> And this wouldn't be too easy to explain just with their stupidity ;)
[14:23:40] <@Jibbles> heh yeah :) But then, why didn't the sequel police just travel back to the moment of Roger's birth?
[14:24:13] <@Justas> Which is why my preference is "as little time travel as possible" ;)
[14:24:28] <@Justas> They can make for too easy and cheap plot devices
[14:24:58] <@Jibbles> Yeah. Unless a game is completely time-travel (which is already been done) it should have minimized time-travel.
[14:25:06] <@Justas> Yeap
And then some more thoughts that we discussed earlier:
[14:02:54] <@Justas> The disk part is also a bit dodgy
[14:03:28] <@Jibbles> Yeah, something different though...
[14:03:58] <@Jibbles> VSB will be practically the only game where the player finds out whats going on _before_ they take control of Roger.
[14:04:04] <@Justas> The solution that they go to the exact same location where everybody expects them to pick up the disk from SQ4 and instead they just found one of the thousands of infected disks that has the entire essence of Vohaul on it, sounds rather cheap
[14:04:21] <@Jibbles> I agree with that.
[14:05:21] <@Justas> A raw idea I had was that while the virus would spread itself, there would still have to be only one master disk with the full Vohaul essence on it
[14:05:43] <@Justas> Having millions of Vohaul disks would just screw up everything :P
[14:05:54] <@Jibbles> Yeah
[14:06:17] <@Justas> Haven't yet got around to posting this idea, though, as I haven't thought too much about it. Feel free to chew on that if you can be arsed to ;)
[14:06:38] <@Justas> I'd like to throw out the time travel entirely and have a disk originating from the generic SQ2 era
[14:06:47] <@Jibbles> Me too
[14:07:01] <@Jibbles> But it would be too complicated really.
[14:07:40] <@Justas> Dunno... making all the time travel consistent would be even more complicated, IMO ;)
[14:08:06] <@Jibbles> I think dealing with a Vohaul who has no knowledge of SQ12 would be near-impossible.
[14:08:18] <@Justas> It also sounds like a weak link just to copy something from the old games.
[14:08:49] <@Justas> The SQ2 Vohaul most likely had lots of backup plans because he'd be quite paranoid with all these defects
[14:09:07] <@Justas> More than just the LSL4 thing
[14:10:23] <@Jibbles> I don't know, I think he's quite arrogant as well. Why else would he disable the planetary defense system against a person who has already foiled his plans three times and killed him twice?
[14:11:03] <@Justas> Yeah. He'd probably be able to do stuff like that after having made all the backups
[14:11:13] <@Justas> Which would explain the unguarded asteroid in SQ2

[14:17:46] <@Justas> I like the whole "Vohaul's essence can never be truly defeated" idea introduced in SQ4
[14:18:34] <@Jibbles> Yeah, so do I... but I don't think that he should have multiple backup plans (thats too cheezy). Just one backup after another.
[14:18:55] <@Justas> Well, yeah.
[14:19:59] <@Justas> We might even make a very slight reference to a "Project: Leisure Suit Larry 4" or something. Sort of like a hologram of the Death Star was seen near the end of Star Wars II
"Man, we're gonna get so much pie when all these droids start coming back."

User avatar
Jibbles
Writer
Writer
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 1:46 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Jibbles » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:20 am

How about this...

==Space Quest XII==
Roger and Roger Jr leave the super computer to talk - the formatting timer is still ticking down fast. The sequel police realise they don't have much time left before formatting is completed and Vohaul is lost forever. Moments after Rog and Rog leave, a sequel policeman runs into the room, puts a non-copy-protected disk in the machine and downloads Vohaul. Still, he is running out of time before the computer is wiped and all their technology is useless. Quickly scribbling the words 'Vohaul Backup' on the disc, he then grabs a time-gun, types in a time code (he doesn't have time to look one up) and at the last moment throws it through the rift. The formatting sequence completes, the sequel policeman keels over and dies.

==A couple of months before VSB (Space Quest 7??)==
Rift appears in the apeman base. Blah, blah, blah...

==Space Quest VSB==
Romanticon...

User avatar
mjomble
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Writer / Efficiency Facilitator
Posts: 2422
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 4:44 am
Location: Estonia

Post by mjomble » Fri Aug 12, 2005 6:41 am

[15:24:50] <@Justas> Sounds like it could work. At least there aren't time-travelling apemen in it ;)
[15:24:58] <@pcj> Yay
[15:25:10] <@Jibbles> pcj, what do you think?
[15:25:11] <@Justas> Helps to keep more of the previous material than my way. Damn you! :P
[15:25:20] <@Jibbles> heh
[15:25:26] <@pcj> Jibbles, good enough
[15:25:47] <@pcj> Though now we have to animate a Sequel Policeman too and don't get the relationship between the two apemen set up
[15:26:05] <@Jibbles> Also requires someone to animate a running Sequel Policeman, and we probably need to briefly see Roger and Roger Jr leaving the room.

[15:34:15] <@Justas> Neh, the characters could be set up later, they'll have several scenes

[15:35:09] <@Justas> The two apes will have a scene at the console already in the intro, so they'd be there anyway ;)
"Man, we're gonna get so much pie when all these droids start coming back."

Post Reply